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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 6, 2009 1:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 2-13-70

Is this not the best Dark Star ever. Was listening to the my friends converted to mp3 tape of this show, which I'm confident everyone here who was there had a copy of back in the day and it even maybe had some sort of influence on how you perceive the Grateful Dead, like it did myself.
Anyway to get to the point, listening to the tape version tonight that a friend had, which was the same version I and probably most of us had on tape, was Psychologically if not sonically way more gratifying than listening to the official release.
This is probably a moot point to many of you but I for one, who hadn't listened to the tape version in years, found it had way more depth. It might be because this particular recording and it's format on tape was so influential to my experience with the Dead that it strikes me as better. The thing is I'm not so sure that this portion of that show doesn't actually sound better on his tape then the official release. Maybe I'm stoned, but any constructive comments on this, before I start digging through all the old tapes looking for improbable gems, would be appreciated.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Jun 7, 2009 9:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

I agree that this is not he best Dark Star ever, I don't even think it's the best 1970 Fillmore East Dark Star! I prefer 1/2/70 and 9/19/70 from Fillmore East. The show in it's totality is awesome though. These shows, 2/13 and 2/14/70 are shows I always play in their entirety. I rarely skip around because the flow is perfect, and there are no songs I even want to skip. The version to download of 2/13/and 2/14/70 are the Miller transfers. I don't know why they sound better than the Dick's Picks release of these nights, but they do. I never play the Dick's Picks version anymore.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 6, 2009 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

I don't think it's the best Star ever, but it is an important one to a lot of people.

Anyway, as for your question - old tapes do frequently sound better than the vault releases. Just for instance, I was very disappointed with how the 4-8-72 Dark Star sounded on the Steppin' Out set - my old tape seemed much warmer, with a deeper bass sound.
There could be a few reasons for this....the way they mastered it, the naturally deeper sound of tapes vs. CDs, our ears "bonding" to the first mix we hear of a song.... There could be many gems still left in an old, dusty tape collection, even if all the shows have been digitally "replaced"....

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Poster: GennyBenni Date: Jun 6, 2009 8:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

This dark star will probably always be my favorite, as it was the first I really fell in love with. Judging whether one star is "better" than another is totally silly. I can't quantify it, so I won't try and convince the rest of you.

I try not to listen to it much anymore, because it's almost too special to listen to all the time. As for 9-19-70... agreed WT, it's amazing, and much in the same spirit. It doesn't have the same effect that this one does though.

Unfortunately I know nothing about the sound quality of tapes vs. CDs so I can't actually contribute to your question. But any post dedicated to this concert, I have to reply to.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 6, 2009 6:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

That whole sequence DS>TIFTOO>Lovelight is about as good as it gets. I could probably come up with individual versions of each that I like better but its hard to find 90 minutes as good as that. I think the recent CM transfer of Rob Eaton's DATs sound incredible. Can't listen here unfortunately but it was seeding at a few of the sites.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 6, 2009 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Hey BS--LiA beat me to it, and no doubt will cast a long shadow for my tidbit...Given your posting, I pulled it out and just listened to it in its entirety. I do see striking resemblance to my fav, 9-19-70, but for my very biased money, I don't think it goes as far, in terms of what Jerry does in the last 6-8 min or so...but it certainly is a good one. My version, assuming it is "your" version, from the DPs, is a good sounding one, so don't know that I would devalue it relative to tapes, but this is a comparison I can't comment on as I never had tapes of it...

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 7, 2009 4:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Yea I agree with the posts above that it's pretty much impossible to call the best Dark Star of pretty much any other song for that matter. But for me this DS>OO>LL had such an early impact that every note seems to be permanently engraved into my DNA. I'm actually listening to this for the first time in a few years and it's a friends transfer of his old tape which is basically the same tape I used to have, except much cleaner. I'll have to check out that Rob Eaton, CM recording elbow mentioned to see if it's better than my friends.
I think it's kind of one of those things where the tape is so ingrained that that it's Jaded me and it's hard to compare it with anything else.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 7, 2009 7:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Yep--someone mentioned the OOne from this, or maybe it was at the DEAD Store reading reviews? Said it was the best by far...hmmm, might have been the 2 May one? I know it was a DP of 70...Damn...

Well, anyhow, the point is that this whole sequence is great, as noted by you and another here, and you're right.

Somehow 9-19 is so ingrained in me, I pick it over any of the Fillmore DS's (you'd think from LiveDead experience it would be the one from the record, right? IE, I heard that MANY more times in my youth). I have probably listened to the 9-19 version dozens of times, and for all other DSs, except 10-12-68, I doubt I have listened to any one more than three times...Strange.

But listening to yours I was grabbed by the fact that I couldn't find myself having the same "pull" into "it" even while objectively judging it "great"...When I play the 9-19 version I get goosebumps of anticipation, just as I do for 12-29-68 for the OOne...

I would probably have to be stuck in a car or some situation where I was forced to listen to it five times and then might have the experience of really appreciating it.

Just like the H2H debate we had at Hook. Though I would never admit it to the "other side" I get goosebumps EVERYTIME I hear the Jerry solo in 8-6 and that just never happens with 4-29...Now, that one is short enough that you can play it, as I have, and get someone to go "Holy Shit! What did Jerry just do with that solo?!" but that's sorta the exception that proves the rule.

Babblin....

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 7, 2009 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

It is odd how favorites are different. For me The Other One of 8-21-68 is better punctuated by the band than say 10-12, and has more control than 12-29, which seems to want to burst open but just can't get to swing. I think that mean I'd probably freeze up and freak instead of dancing it off.

Also, I can't see how someone could stop at year '71 -- '72-'73 are the peak years for me!

To never hear Eyes of the World or even Althea is odd to me maybe because I came later. But then I am weird -- I'm really hot on Drums & Space in 9-7-85 since I heard it on GD Hour, but never want to listen to the rest of it.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 7, 2009 11:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Yeah, I would have to say that love of D & Sp puts you in a category more limited than me, don't you think? IE, early era types that stop sometime in the 70s are probably more abundant than folks that say they like Dr & Sp...I have always recalled you have said that before.

Of course, as I always point out to JOTS, I did actually get to hear a lot of Eyes and some Altheas while I was going in 74-82, and then when I listened to tapes and such from 82-95 or so.

It's only in my "reawakening" period, since 05, that I have become this early era oddball. In a way, you could say I am just going thru a phase, like we all do, but mine has become an obsession, and one that I enjoy debating with folks (ie, when I defend "why" I have such a strong pull to 68 and find so much less to draw me to 77 or 82 or whenever).

I do still sneak a listen to PegO and CrFing from 75 now and again, but the truth is, if you add up all I have now, I probably have something like 400-500 CDs, and of those, I'd bet only 25 are post 73...and of those post 71, I play them maybe once every other yr or so.

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Poster: chookie Date: Jun 7, 2009 2:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Still waiting to give this Dark Star a listen. I over the past year or so have come to really enjoy it, as i usually would skip over it in the past. Since then i've found some good ones, mostly '72.

You know its crazy how some of us heads just don't listen to certain years, and we go through phases (songs, years, shows). I personally am the opposite and rarely touch anything before '71. I understand the phases and have come to believe that i will appreciate and understand certain years as i develop as a dead listener, as this has happened to me over my 7 years of dead jamming. I believe this aspect is what allows us heads to be obsessive, if you will. There is such a vast quantity of music that you can just beat yourself over the head with it for, forever!

just thought i'd kinda bring up this thought, im now gonna go check this dark star.

peace,
chook

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 7, 2009 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Yeah I usually skip '70-71, until recently I heard a recommendation on a show and a jam sounded like Jerry was quoting everything from the past and future. But then I lost track of it.

I'm only around 13.00 of 9-70 DS and it's a nice change from the Playin-Truck-Other nexus I usually go for. The whole show is familiar but different, like visiting the mountains of upstate NY after living California a long time.

BTW, what's the jam after 16.00?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 7, 2009 4:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

LiA or others can speak more authoritatively on these "DS jam titles" as I don't keep track, BUT I think this one, if you mean 16' of 9-19-70, is called the "feelin groovy jam".

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 7, 2009 8:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Hey WT I forgot to mention the DP's it's on is #4 which is a compilation of the 2-13,14 shows. This is the one I've had for the last 10 years or so, but haven't listened to it for a while. I'm pretty sure this is probably a case of, "ears bonding" to the tape version, that LIA mentioned before. Sometime soon when I get a spare 4 hours I'm going to compare the 2 sources back to back and I'll give you a report to see if it's actually better.
Funny, I assumed everyone had a copy of this tape at one time but it was probably just in my circle of friends back then that for us it was like 5-8-77.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 8, 2009 6:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Funny, but I didn't have a single tape of the early era back in my serious tape days...I got one of 65 studio sessions in 1980, but that was about it.

I vaguely thought that CEnv was a song they rarely did "live", period.

Until I got TFTV and ended up here a few yrs ago, I really didn't know the Live Dead suites were missing TIFTOO, and how often they played those two sets of songs...

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 8, 2009 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Yea it's kind of weird about how much I didn't know back before the online age even weirder kinda once it got popularized in the late 80's that it was sort of a requiem to know this show or another before one could get your GD cub scout badge.
I'm rambling but basically I'm wondering when this show showed up as a regular on the tape trade circuit and why was it so influential to many of us.
BTW 9-19 is 0n my list I don't think I have listened to it. I only have the 20th in my collection. I prefer to listen on lossless the first time anyway but I'm on the prowl for it now.

This post was modified by barongsong on 2009-06-08 18:00:57

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 8, 2009 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

Are you at Hook? PM me if you like...

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Poster: barongsong Date: Jun 8, 2009 12:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 2-13-70

I think I am actually, although I'm kind of a one trick horse when it comes to forum posting due to time. Gotta find that password now.
Whelp found the email they sent but my password was rejected for some reason.

Get this after trying the resend password option it didn't recognize my email and now after trying to re register it says I've got an invalid birthday, whatever that means, so I'm giving up on this for tonight. Will try again tomorrow I guess.

This post was modified by barongsong on 2009-06-08 19:01:43